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G8MNY > TECH 27.06.25 16:31l 152 Lines 7267 Bytes #6 (0) @ WW
BID : 35565_GB7CIP
Read: GUEST
Subj: Old Valve Radios
Path: JH4XSY<N3HYM<K5DAT<GB7BED<GB7COW<GB7CIP
Sent: 250627/0723Z @:GB7CIP.#32.GBR.EURO #:35565 [Caterham Surrey GBR]
From: G8MNY@GB7CIP.#32.GBR.EURO
To : TECH@WW
By G8MNY (Updated Nov 09)
(8 Bit ASCII graphics use code page 437 or 850, Terminal Font)
I have collected a few over years, 4 of the bigger ones I regularly display at
an RAF memorial flight do, where WW11 vintage kit is appreciated by oldtimers.
My oldest & biggest one is a Marconiphone 279, it was made in 1934/5 & sold for
�16+pt, It uses five 5 pin & a 7 pin valves, it is still working fine. Last
heavily used in the 1960s in the "prefects room" at my school, listening to all
the MW boat pirates, so its wooden case condition is poor!
_________________
.' /ｳ
ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ｳ The design is quiet a complex
ｳ ....ﾚﾄﾄﾄｿ.... ｳ ｳ superhet for its day. It gave
ｳ : ﾚﾄﾙ[=]ﾀﾄｿ : ｳ ｳ good sensitivity with just the
ｳ .� ｳ@ @ｳ �. ｳ ｳ MW/LW internal frame aerials which
ｳ : ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ : ｳ ｳ had a manual peaking capacitor.
ｳ : _____ : ｳ ｳ
ｳ : 'ｳｳｳ_ｳｳｳ' : ｳ ｳ The RF & external aerial is fed to
ｳ : ﾙﾀﾄﾗﾄﾙﾀ : ｳ ｳ a variable mu (gain) stage (VMS4B)
ｳ : ｳ ｺ ｳ : ｳ ｳ then RF tuned again, & on to the
ｳ : ｳ ｺ ｳ : ｳ ｳ oscillator mixer stage (VMS4B).
ｳ : .ｿ__ｺ__ﾚ. : ｳ ｳ
ｳ :.............: ｳ/
ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ
A low frequency IF of 125kHz (kilo cycles back then) is used & gives very good
selectivity, & with the 2 RF tunned circuits the nearby RF image is not a
problem. The IF is double tuned both sides of the variable mu IF amp (VMS4B).
The DC in this IF stage also drives the "fluid light" dial tuning indicator (no
magic eyes back then, so this is a magnetised metal strip in a coil in the dial
light path). N.B. These 3 tetrodes have the ANODE as the top cap!
ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ
ｳLW/MWｳ ｳVariableｳ ｳ LW/MW ｳ ｳLW/MWｳ ｳ Doubleｳ ｳVariableｳ ｳ Doubleｳ ｳ ｳ
ｳTunedｳ ｳ Gain ｳ ｳ R.F. ｳ ｳ Mix ｳ ｳ Tuned ｳ ｳ Gain ｳ ｳ Tuned ｳ ｳDetectorｳ
ｳFrameﾃﾄｴ Valve ﾃﾄｴ Tuned ﾃﾄｴ Osc ﾃﾄｴ I.F. ﾃﾄｴ Valve ﾃﾄｴ I.F. ﾃﾄｴ ﾃ>
ｳ Ant ｳ ｳ Amp ｳ ｳCircuitｳ ｳValveｳ ｳCircuitｳ ｳ Amp ｳ ｳCircuitｳ ｳ ｳ
ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾂﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾂﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾂﾄﾄﾄﾙ
ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾁﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄ<ﾙAGC
ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ
Volume ｳTriodeｳ ｳTetrodeｳ ｳ L.S. ｳ ｳ Power ｳ
>ControlﾄｴValve ﾃﾄｴ Valve ﾃﾄｴ Systemﾃﾄｴ Supplyﾃﾄ<Mains
ｳ Amp ｳ ｳ Amp ｳ ｳ& Chokeｳ ｳ4V+280Vｳ
ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾂﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾂﾄﾄﾄﾙ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ
Biasﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ
The detector is conventional double diode triode valve (MHD4) 7 pin, with high
level signals from the IF anode used to generate the negative AGC line for the
RF & IF amps. The AF detector feeds the volume control together with the Gram
Pickup input & back to the triode preamp stage. This is coupled to the AF
output. A leaky capacitor here, is a major cause of valve radios not working
with the output stage taking all the HT power!
The output stage is a single power pentode (MPT4) with side screw connection
for the screen grid, it produces about 5W RMS onto the LS transformer.
The LS is a large mains energised magnet (HT choke) in the earth side of the
PSU, the winding also has a tapping for the negative bias voltage for the AF
output valve.
In series with the LS voice coil is the "Hum bucker" coil on the side limb of
the choke magnet, this picks up the same hum voltage as the voice coil &
cancels the hum.
Across the LS is a shorting mute switch operates when the band change changes
over.
Due to the negative side HT choke, the smoothing caps in the seperate PSU have
separate -ve rails. The rectifier valve (MU12/14) has 2 anodes fed from the
350-0-350V transformer. No fuse or earth is used in the set, (I recommend a 1A
mains plug one & an earth tag screwed to the PSU case!)
The 4V heater line has a hum balancing pot ("Hum Dinger"), slider earthed, this
is used to minimise heater emitted hum in the 5 indirectly heated valves.
===============================================================================
My next largest set is the famous EKCO A22 with the fragile iconic round black
bakerlite case, mine is still 100% OK & works on LW MW & SW.
_.-ﾄﾄ-._
/ ___ \ First made in 1945 there were earlier
| ﾜﾛﾛﾛﾛﾜ | round types with live chassis & no
| ﾛﾟ ﾟﾛ | chrome L.S. trim, but the A22 is a
| ﾞﾛ ﾛﾝ | safer mains transformer model with
| ﾛﾜ ﾜﾛ | four IO based valves ECH35, EF39, EBL31,
| ﾟﾛﾛﾛﾛﾟ | AZ31 ! Sold for �14-14s (14 Gns) +pt.
\()( )()/
_> <_
/________\
It has no frame aerial & needs a good wire aerial & then it does very well.
There is a semi slow motion tuning drive, the huge 270� dial lets you see the
outer SW scale quite well. Despite the round case it is fairly conventional
valve radio design.
Again a leaky signal capacitor to the AF output valve, is a major cause of
valve radios not working with the output stage taking all the HT power!
Looking on the Web, I see these sets now go for nearly �800 ($1400)!
===============================================================================
Ferguson 450, SW & MW, first made in 1946 sold for �14-14s (14gns) +pt.
This one has a strange history, as it is still band new & looks it with its
shiny varnished wooden case! Removed unsold from my Grandfather's shop when it
closed down, it is still in original box, with guarantee, operating
instructions & sales information etc. It had an intermittent fault "no RF osc"
which I guess is why it was never sold. (tuning cap)
_______________ Valve line up is ECH35 mixer osc, EF39 IF, EBC33
/ _______ /ｳ Detector AF amp, EL33 AF output. AZ31 rectifier.
/.../ / /.../ ｳ
ｳ'''ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ'''ｳ ｳ Again it needs a good external wire aerial.
ｳ ============= ｳ ｳ It does use a mains energised magnet
ｳ ============= ｳ ｳ (HT choke) on the L.S. in the +HT side of
ｳ ============= ｳ / the PSU. In series with the L.S. voice coil
ｳ (/) (/) ｳ/ is the "Hum bucker" coil on the limb of the
ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ choke magnet, this picks up the same hum
voltage as the voice coil & cancels the hum.
===============================================================================
Roberts Valve Portable LW MW & SW Radio
______
____\.....\_____
/ =ｳ_____ｳ= /ｳ It has a blue covering over wooden box.
/ /_\___/ / ｳ LW, MW with built in frame aerial & SW
ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ0 0 0ﾚﾄﾄﾄﾄｿ ｳ on added wire aerial. It was quite
ｳ ﾀﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾙ ｳ ｳ popular as I have seen many examples.
ｳ ｳ ｳ It used a large 1.5V+90V battery & has
ｳ /~~~\ ｳ ｳ a battery eliminator to work on mains.
ｳ ｳ ｳ ｳ ｳ
ｳ ｳ ｳ ｳ ｳ Care must be taken not to exceed 1.5V
ｳ \___/ ｳ / on the valves heaters, as the heaters
ｳ ｳ/ will easily lose their cathode coating
'ﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄﾄ' (emision) or burn out.
See my Tech buls on "Valves (tubes)" & "Early AVO Valve Tester".
Why Don't U send an interesting bul?
73 De John G8MNY @ GB7CIP
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